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Thoughts On Apple’s HTML5 Demos

I had heard through the grapevine that Apple would be posting a set of HTML5 demos today. To be honest I was kind of looking forward to seeing some cool stuff. Instead they have presented a set of basic demos that have very little to do with HTML5 or web standards. On top of that they have implemented a browser-detection scheme that is quite deceptive to say the least.

The image below was circulated on Twitter and it shows that on Apple’s demo page you are unable to view the examples using Google Chrome, Opera, Firefox or any other browser and are instead asked to download and install Safari in order to see the demos. That is quite odd seeing as though Chrome has much better support for the future HTML5 standard according to the site html5test.com.

In an ironic and funny side note, the browser sniffing was apparently blocking people from viewing the demos on their iPhone, although I can’t confirm that. The performance of the demos on the iPhone may have something to do with that, as most of the demos crawled on my 3GS.

If you go to the developer section of Apple’s website you can view the demos using Chrome and are not directed to download Safari. So on to the demos themselves. I made a joke on Twitter about how these were equivalent to things created in Flash 8, but to be honest that is being kind. A photo slideshow and 360° PNG sequence are more like Flash 5. The reality is that HTML5 is capable of much more than that so it is odd that they considered these to be a good showcase of what is possible. Apple should really consider hiring some Flash developers to create some badass HTML5 demos. Many in the community have been dabbling in it and have created much more impressive demos than these.

Other browser manufacturers have rightfully jumped up to dispute Apple’s questionable browser-sniffing policy. Opera’s Haavard Moen blogged that

“when the page doesn’t work in Opera or other browsers it isn’t because these browsers don’t support HTML5. It’s because Apple uses browser sniffing and vendor prefixes, and in addition to that they aren’t really testing a lot of HTML5 at all. Most of their demos seem to have got nothing to do with HTML5, as a matter of fact.”

Christopher Blizzard from Firefox was more direct saying

“Apple’s messaging is clearly meant to say ‘hey, we love the web’ but the actual demos they have and the fact that actively block other browsers from those demos don’t match their messaging. It’s not intellectually honest at all.”

A quick review of the source code shows that it is littered with WebKit-specific prefixes and extensions. The messaging surrounding the demos is also iffy at best. In the Light Table demo, which is actually pretty nice, the messaging states that

“Using CSS3 transforms and transitions, photos can be easily sorted, shuffled, or displayed in a slideshow with just a few lines of CSS and JavaScript.”

Of course I was curious as to the contents of those 3 lines as they must be the most powerful 3 lines of code ever written. In actual fact, the JavaScript file that drives the demo is 700 lines long.

Personally I look forward to the day when simple things like video playback and photo galleries can be handed off to browsers to handle. Flash has always been about pushing the envelope. So long as there are standards, there will always be technologies and developers who want to go beyond that.

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126 Comments

  1. Lately, it seems that I read more blogs by people at Adobe talking about Apple, rather than talking about their own products. That’s a good strategy if you want to be lead around. Otherwise, it makes you guys look like you don’t have anything original to say.

  2. Well said but I don’t really see the problem with Apple blocking other browsers than Safari as those pages are likely to be seen (and understood) by web developers who have Safari installed anyway (and Chrome, FF, IE…)

    Ok it’s a weird way to advertise their browser but this is their website after all.

  3. Well, at least some people’s iphone’s were able to run them. After viewing a couple on mine (3GS), they quit working for me. Guess my mobile browser isnt good enough…

  4. Nice!

    I downloaded Safari to view the demos, but after reading your article.. I think I will just delete it.
    It was very cheap of them to do a browser sniffing and promote their product.

    Flash rules!!!

  5. @William Beem Then what are Apple fanboys like you are doing here reading Adobe blogs?!

    It’s funny how these demos not even show up on Firefox! Apple seems to be very confident that everyone is running Safari but the truth is that Safari is a minority compared to FF and IE, so again mostly Apple fanboys will be able to see the demos and rave about something that is technologically very lame.

  6. Thanks for this Lee. I am glad someone is remaining calm and analytical in this much hyped debate. My initial response to having to download Safari to view ‘open’ HTML5 demos was complete shock and then somewhere closer to disbelief followed by rage. APPLE is extremely deceptive. They have never been about what is accessible, just that which is profitable.

  7. @mike’r’us

    Suggesting Adobe to talk more about their own products makes them Apple fanboy? Even more that means he/she cant love Adobe too? Whos the fanboy here?

    I would suggest Adobe to focus on their products too. It looks childish having all these kinds of posts on a Flash blog, for people who loves Adobe and the Flash platform.

  8. I guess a downside if twitter is that no one cross-checks things like that fact that the image you posted has the most up-to-date Chrome and an out-of-date Safari.

    Along the lines of what William said above, though, it’s been rather disappointing watching the discussions on these blogs (which I used to follow pretty seriously as a Flash & Flex dev) devolve from talking about awesome tools and building cool stuff, on to pushing platforms, and then finally to petty jabs. If you guys think this is going to convince me and others like me to keep buying and using your tools to develop (which is how you make your money) then you have another thing coming. For everyone’s benefit, please just get back to the ‘making cool stuff with awesome tools’ thing and check your attitudes at the door.

  9. “So long as there are standards, there will always be technologies and developers who want to go beyond that.”

    Unfortunately, this is the key that people like Steve Jobs are missing when spewing all of the “HTML5 is the future” stuff.

  10. @Ray So you are saying we should just ignore the web of lies that Apple is trying to spread?

    Sorry, but we can’t let that happen!

  11. I’ve actually really had it with Apple, the Apple cult, and all of this bull. I have no idea what is wrong with that company, they are clearly not about some futuristic web vision or awesome user experience, but they certainly are pawning it off like that to the dumb masses. Yeah sure, HTML5, so you can do some nifty things with it that put you back in the days of Flash 5. That’s fine and dandy, and it will no doubt progress as time goes by. I’m not opposed to HTML5 by any means, but why not support it as an option or just another technology for a full rich web experience? Adobe is obviously doing that. HTML5 is clearly not a Flash replacement, anyone with at least half a brain should know that. However, Apple insists on this aggressive campaign not just to promote HTML5 but also to discredit Flash along the way, it is completely asinine. The only people that could buy into it must be seriously branded iSheep with about zero technical background, who don’t even realize that heavy HTML5 stuff won’t even work on their iPhone. Unfortunately, I think that’s a lot of people. Oddly, commenter #1 might have a point, I myself am done with Apple and talking about Apple, thank goodness for Android.

  12. I agree with William Beem. You guys just bitch and moan about Apple 24/7. Make some products that kick ass and stop complaining…

  13. hey at least everyone at adobe isn’t bitter about apple blocking adobe on the iphone/ipad.

    and thank goodness adobe has some sort of proof for flash working on currently shipping mobile phones.
    oh… wait.

    but seriously, it’s pretty silly to see posts/articles/etc from those within adobe bashing apple trying to get a one-up on them in every way, rather than focusing on their own products instead of trying to complain that ‘big bad apple’ won’t let them play in steve jobs’ sandbox.

    rocksteady,
    danno~

  14. Agreed with everyone…

    I watch this blog, as a mostly C++ developer, mainly because a lot of flash stuff is really cool.

    I get that you all hate Apple, but take the high road and make some amazing flash stuff to show how great it is instead of continually bashing Apple. I happen to like HTML 5, webkit is open source and Apple is basically trying to show off Safari, which is questionable but their choice. Google has a crap load of stuff that only works in Chrome (namely NaCl), and I downloaded Chrome specifically for it because its awesome and may be the future of the web.

    From a COMPLETELY objective stand point all your complaining about this does is send more Apple traffic to your FLASH blog and spread their link.

    If Flash is the best and better than HTML 5 then please just keep creating great flash content and tutorials and forget about Apple. If you’re truly better than them then why is a post like this necessary?

  15. I was taken aback by the Safari web browser requirement in the Apple HTML5 demo.
    How is this “better” than a Flash plugin requirement that would work in any browser?

    I was in the Apple store today, and looked at the iPad for the first time.
    It’s a travesty that a device as beautifully engineered as this one cannot display Flash content.
    I have a funny feeling my clients are going to start asking for iPad compatibility.
    Not sure how to handle this other than to double the fees for RIA dev.

  16. My take on this is that HTML5 is just one way to create something to share with everyone. It’s not the end all be all. Adobe Flash is another method. Pick and choose the one that reaches your intended audience and use it.

    Wouldn’t it be interesting if Adobe added a Compile to HTML5 feature into Flash?

  17. More poo for the poo fight! Bring it!

    Really, this is getting silly. Yes, its our jobs we’re talking about, but still, there’s no reason to behave like a bunch of children rolling around and throwing half baked semi-truthisms to each other.

    Make that stuff, make it good, get it out here and be the best. If everyone need piles and miles of blogposts, shady information, un-informative (and broken) websites and what not for it you are admitting fear for the other and lack of trust for your own.

    [That was just anger. Depression is realizing this **** is needed because of the folks who have no clue whats what and that mass needs to be soothed indefinitely, like a bunch of hypersensitive teenage girlies.]

  18. I was in the Apple store today, and looked at the iPad for the first time.
    It’s a travesty that a device as beautifully engineered as this one cannot display Flash content.
    I have a funny feeling my clients are going to start asking for iPad compatibility.
    Not sure how to handle this other than to double the fees for RIA dev.

  19. One thing I don’t get in this entire Flash vs HTML5 argument is why Adobe decided to overlook the entire corporate market? So they decided to stop any further development on the Flash to native app compiler… why?

    There should quite a number of big corporates looking at deploying iPads for their mobile workforce. Given that there are currently more Flash than Objective-C developers it seems to me Flash CS5 would be the logical development platform. Yes, you currently can’t submit those apps to the apps store but you certainly can run them in your own corporate environment. Last I checked that process doesn’t require Apples stamp of approval.

    Work with the corporate market for a while and developers will demand from Apple to be able to deploy to the general public using the same tools. Seems to me that’s a more strategic move than stomping your feet on the ground like a little kid and calling each other names. Never worked with kids and certainly won’t work with Apple.

  20. Roflol!
    I can understand the folks at Adobe, if anything, it’s pretty tempting to make a Flash showcase, it can easily be a lot more impressive, will work on virtually all browsers and even show the power of flash on mobile devices. It will look like a bitchfight, but it’s oh so tempting.

  21. Looking over a few pages of Lee’s recent posts should show you guys that he spends more time blogging about cool Flash stuff than he spends pointing out Apple’s lame behavior. With all the weird stuff Apple’s been up to recently, sometimes a guy just has to blog and say “WTF?”

  22. You finished this post with words close to to what I think about this all. Standards are a base line of the web. Minimal functionality that is awaited from all browsers. And HTML5 pushes it a lot further but it still stays a base line. Plugins are in this standard for a reason and server the purpose of extending the web possibilities beyond standard level. And some good parts of what those plugins do get adopted and then end up getting in to the standard in one way or another.

    For me that’s what HTML5 is about. A lot of stuff that is added clearly comes from plugins innovations. Flash is here for a long time and for a long time it was allowing various stuff like dynamic graphics, vector graphics and animations, pages updates without refreshing, video and audio controlled by code in various ways(adding subtitles, buttons, interactivity over video). Those were things just not possible in HTML but many of those now come to be. Ask your self a question. What of those features would not come to HTML5 if Flash did not show that there is a need for them, wouldn’t Flash absence slow down HTML5 adoption because of lack of “competition”, and then when HTML5 finally comes wouldn’t all new HTML5 apps benefit from innovation and ideas developed trough those years in Flash?

    Plugins are here for a reason, reason of satisfying demands higher then those allowed by standards and innovating in various directions showing standards what works and what does not, what to adopt and what to leave out.

  23. @William Beem, if it seems that you read more blogs by people at Adobe talking about Apple, that’s probably because you simply choose to, a**hole. You are either a loyal fan of this Flash blog or simply trolling too hard to be the first one to leave a comment.

    @Steve Jobs, trolling real hard.

    I am sorry to break the bad news for all the fanboys but did you know that HTML5 – or really is the canvas element that is part of HTML5 which allows for scriptable rendering of 2D shapes and bitmap images, while running on a low level, PROCEDURAL model that updates a bitmap – is really just sh*t, compared to AS3 which is an Object Oriented Programming language allowing for more control and code reusability when building complex applications? And Flash even draws 3D, let alone provides accessibility to low level data manipulation like PixelBender, sound extracting, sound mixing, and capabilities like p2p, live streaming, voice recognition, augmented reality, etc. How “future” can you be if you are running on a procedural model that only draws 2D? Good news is, there is a place for HTML5, when I want to do a simple slide-in of an image of a bunny. If I wish to watch porn with webcam interactivity, or a live streaming video that can allow users to edit and insert bubbles, or use a complex, rich, immersive, interactive application, or play a 3D online game with gesture and voice recognition, HTML5 is simply way out of the league.

  24. My favorite line from the Apple demos was: “And you can start using them today”.

    With such poor browser support, do they really think we’re that stupid?

  25. Safari is giving me 113 out of 160 on the html5test.com… It’s somewhat more…

    As a full time Flash developer, I wasn’t that impressed with the demos. And that when we sure have built a lot of Flash websites which could have been done in HTML as well, if the all round browser support was available. Apple now is saying, sure you can use html, but only Safari people will see it. Well, I don’t think I can sell that to our customers!?

  26. Great Post Lee!

    @AllTheTrolls:

    If you don’t have a website or the balls to link it to your name in a post then you are a coward and possibly a non contributing zero (*) to this debate. People, including those working for Adobe are entitled to opinions just like Apple employees do. Of course Apple being a fascist bully their employee can only STFU and remain quiet.

    I suggest you do the same, unless you have some insight on how much this latest move from Apple does nothing to push HTML5 standards. They will shit all over HTML5 if it ever become a threat to their bottom line, like they do to Flash today.

    Saying that Adobe should rather focus on making great products has to be the most ignant statement ever. They have and contributed a lot to the web, a lot more than most Apple Fanboy. So eat our Flash innovation and leadership, enjoy the dust and go troll somewhere else.

  27. This is A Flash Blog/Adobe Blog ? Owh come on . This is personal blog of Lee Brimelow (man, read the “Disclaimer”). So everything lee wrote in this blog is up to lee. You guys in America always shout “Freedom of Expression” but you suggest lee to just write about cool stuff made in Flash? WHAT THE ? (it’s like people warn me just to write about my family in my blog when the world is in danger).

    And you guys still want to know about cool flash demo here? Fine, look at the “GotoAndLearn” section, and you guys will know some cool flash demos plus THE TUTORIALS ON HOW TO MAKE IT IN VIDEO FORMAT!!

  28. Jobs knows he threw a blind shot here and he is really nervous about it. The fact that Apple is on this “open standards” case like a North Korean propaganda machine shows that they know they have screwed up.

    One thing is clear, calling a 4.5% market share of your Safari browser a winner and 98% market share of Flash a loser, is completely idiotic and stupid. If Jobs said that he banned flash because it competes with his app store, I would be ok with it and still buy a mac.

    But selling complete lies to me, a developer which can easily go and check the source code is even more of an screw up.

    HTML5 does have a future, but unlike what Apple tell you, its not today, not the next 5 years either. And all this hype with iPad (honestly, tested it, and its just a giant ipod) will cool down once people get used its “magical” look.

  29. there are so many Apple fanboys posing here as reasonable types who just want to stop all this childish behavior. SHUT THE F***K UP ya posers!

    Apple is the child in all of this. They are currently demonstrating the worst of capitalism. And I truly hope DOJ puts Jobs on notice.

    But in the meantime it is up to Adobe to call them on their bullcrap! I’d go a lot further if it was me. I’d drop the Mac from the entire Adobe product line. No Dreamweaver. No Photoshop. No Illustrator. No Flash! Now that truly would be childish and exactly what I’d do!

    So Lee, keep fighting the good fight and keep calling Jobs and his iSheep out when they spread lies and crap!

  30. Ask Steve Jobs if he can demo this site in HTML5:
    http://www.sensisoft.com/

    For all you who’s complaining about “show us more flash instead of trashing Apple”, just check the three other entries published over the last three days..

    I personally liked this entry a lot.

  31. Adobe should put up a Flash Showcase on their frontpage that’s cross-browser compatible today.

    A question i’ve been thinking about lately is this, and this is no HTML5-bashing, just curiousity: What happens when H.265 comes out in 2012? Will all browsers that support the H.264 codec today be able to play that codec?

  32. @Lee: I think this is a completely relevant article. There is a lot of misinformation about HTML5 being a Flash killer and if Flash blogs don’t take moments to address the misinformation then people just keep perpetuating the fuzziness. Thank you for your research.

    @everyone else: Adobe has a vested interest in HTML5. Dreamweaver CS5 got an update to assist in producing HTML5+CSS3 content and Adobe demoed some other interesting development efforts at Google I/O, so I really think you are underestimating their interest in the topic.

    To those who say “stop bitching and get back to talking about cool adobe stuff”… just go read one of the very many blogs contained on this site alone. Guys like Lee at Adobe haven’t run out of cool stuff to talk about. You are acting like there is zero value in correcting misinformation!? As a developer, half of my job ends up being about educating my clients. It is a blog post like that that continues to jumpstart my own research into the state of HTML5+CSS3 art so i can make recommendations about whether or not those waters are safe to play in yet.

    Personally, I feel like HTML5+CSS3 is the new “pet rock”. It will turn into a practical tool eventually, but the spotty support makes the current version a trendy choice rather than a solid one for site development at the moment. That will change, but keeping things real is well worth my time in reading a blog post like this.

  33. Right. Please evangelize your own products, not demonize the competition.

    I’m starting a huge project that will be based in Flash Lite 4 on an embedded device. I am furious and frustrated that Adobe has hardly any PR on the new Flash Lite, nor support or editorial, besides some lame, bare-bones documentation hidden deep within adobe.com.

    It is said that Flash Lite 4 is already out in the wild. Why aren’t you talking about it?

  34. The interesting thing, to me, is these comments rather than the idiocy of Apple.

    I agree that Adobe needs to take more initiative, and promote their products better. The I Heart Choice campaign was not implemented good in any way. I think Adobe needs to take a glance at their marketing department and make some serious changes. They don’t seem to be with the times.

    I don’t agree with all of these commentators stating that all Adobe bloggers seem to be doing is “bitching” about Apple. This is wrong for many reasons:
    1. This post, and almost every single one that I have read (and I follow quite a few bloggers and twitterers) have not been complaints. Rather they have attempted to logically sit down and show the facts of the situation. When a company is openly bashing your company and lying to do so – and when that company has the market control that Apple seems to, despite not having the market-share – your company SHOULD respond. One way is reactive, like this, and is to openly and honestly show the lies for what they are. This method doesn’t necessarily work, as any reactive strategy doesn’t work.
    2. I have seen only a handful of these posts, typically happening shortly after a big move from Apple. All of the bloggers post their own follow-up. We’ve seen perhaps 1 big move from Apple a week in the past couple months. This coincides with 1-2 blog posts on each Adobe blog, and some other important dev blogs. I don’t know if I am the only one that truly follows these blogs, but I see approximately 10-12 blog posts a day from the various blogs I follow. 1-2 posts a week on each, and 10-12 a day does not coincide with the feeling that all Adobe is doing is complaining. There are more than a few blog posts that are dealing with the cool tech that Adobe is dealing with, and direct marketing of new Adobe initiatives.

    Regardless, I myself appreciate the position that Adobe is in. With all of the misinformation churning around, I would be reacting by trying desperately to set the record straight. You need to have a voice out there. A logical, honest sit-down will, in the end, work better than just spewing lies without proof.

  35. @Timothy – if you search around you will find video of that specific feature. Unfortunately it wasn’t ready for prime-time when CS5 was released, so they pulled it from this release. But, they are working on it.

  36. What the hell is going on?
    Don’t blog about Apple? Only blog about good news from Adobe?

    Is this the first post any of you have read? Did anyone see the killer water ripple demo a few days ago?

    Lee’s a big boy who is allowed to write big boy articles about any damn thing he wants.

    Keep em coming Lee!

  37. Funny how no one mentions Silverlight at all.. HTML 5 capabilities are still far beneath Silverlight’s too. There’s a lot of limitations in Silverlight that it feels like a Flash 5 game at times.

  38. Thanks Lee. This is not inappropriate as some people seem to think. The mainstream media seem to be just as enthralled and fooled by the iLies as the rest of the dyed-in-the-wool iSheep. Someone has to put the truth out there. If not those who understand it best, then who?

  39. Preface: I’m a web developer/designer, I only “dabble” in AS3.

    Let’s be realistic. Most of us who make websites realize that we still need to support IE6 for at least 50% of the projects we work on. We certainly have to support IE8. If we subscribe to (the dreaded, but respected) Jakob Nielsen’s theory, we should support browsers for something like 6 years after they get replaced. From analytics, I would have to agree with the 6 year rule. Since Windows has yet to offer a browser that supports CSS3 or HTML5, and we, at least I know I do, code for the audience’s technology, I won’t be relying on HTML5 any time soon.

    Like most, I like options, and selecting the best tool for the job. So on this Adobe vs. Apple thing I’m staying neutral. Could you imagine the impact on Apple if Adobe decided to stop offering their product on Apple’s OS. Apple users, like myself, would have to switch (in my case, back) to Windows. As much as I despise the Windows “feel”, there is basically nothing OSX can do that Windows can’t do. It’s just preference.

    I guess I always assumed these two companies should be the bestest of friends, and what was good for one would be good for the other.

  40. Lee, I’m tired Adobe EVANGELISTS talking about Apple products.! I hate what apple does = but, I think I hate you more than Steve Jobs now!!

  41. At least its not a proprietary plugin that only works okay on one platform while crawls on the others. HTML is part of the web, not a lazily put together afterthought.

    Stand on your own legs, Flash Blog. You don’t need to constantly bring up Apple. Say something original.

  42. Thank’s for this Lee… I’m a flash dev and many peers keep forwarding me HTML5 “demos”, it just makes me sad :P

    Unfortunately, no matter who is more “open”, “honest” or what is “fair”, that is irrelevant. The browsers of the future will be ultimately be chosen by consumers. IE6 being the lowest common denominator should be testament testament to that.

    The fact that people chose to install flash means people like it! This is our greatest strength, we can’t continue to associate flash with “whiney bitch”, it is a turn off. We just have to let Steve continue with is power grab, and continue to subvert his plan by doing what we’ve always done: innovate with the tools we’re given.

  43. “Many in the community have been dabbling in it and have created much more impressive demos than these.”

    Why don’t you give just one example?

  44. Apple need to be called out on this. What they are doing is pretending to promote a open standard which is nowhere near ready in order to justify iDevice app development, which they can then monetize.

  45. Just accept that Flash has no future anymore….
    Why do people create flash blockers on Firefox & Chrome?

    Although there are rare occurrences of good Flash design (it even adds value on occasion), the use of Flash typically lowers usability.

    Using flash will make me remember of spams advertising…

  46. Here’s a tip Lee. Less bitching about Apple, less Bang Bros. “sessions” and more making Adobe software not suck. Adobe seems to have a problem on the last part.

    As well as actually shipping a final full version of flash for mobile. You guys try to pile the shit on Apple but iPhone has been out for 3 years and you jokers still don’t have a final shipping version of Flash on ANY mobile device so stop trying to blame Apple for your lazy incompetent asses.

    Apple is working to get HTML5 implemented in Safari and by means of competition also implemented in competing browsers ASAP. Just as various browser makers create benchmarks for javascript that is tuned for their browser based on areas they are currently working in so as these demos. If the other browsers want to get kudos for this set of demos they better get in gear and get things like 3d transforms implemented right away.

  47. As you may have noticed, I haven’t said anything about Apple in quite a while. But Steve Jobs came out again at D8 saying that Flash was a dying technology and he is providing these demos as a justification. I would be doing myself and the rest of the Flash community a disservice to not call it out. If you really think I should not comment when someone sets out to destroy the technology I love, then maybe this just isn’t the place for you to do your reading.

    Also the image that was circulating around Twitter was indeed inaccurate and I have updated it here to reflect the latest Safari version.

  48. @lee
    This doesn’t really do anything pro-Flash. This is just anti-Apple. Apple being a bad company wouldn’t make Adobe not a bad company or make flash better. You also address that Flash is on the leading edge of technology quite often, although I’m not sure about how much of the web actually uses said leading edge. Most of the flash I encounter is video and ads, which often doesn’t utilize any recent flash advances, and many of the games that constitute most of the rest don’t seem to either. If Flash’s primary role is to address the newest technology, then I don’t see much of a reason for the general public to bother with Flash.

    P.S. there’s a Flash vulnerability out at the moment, and there appears to be no way to escape it on 64-bit Linux. Perhaps Adobe should work on getting some version of 64-bit 10.1 out not that the 32-bit version is on about the 7th RC and Solaris and Android have betas out.

  49. Btw it also asked me to install Quicktime (Safari on Windows).

    So much for “standards aren’t add-ons”.

    Cheers, M

  50. @john go to the FWA as it is the best place to see cutting-edge Flash on a daily basis (http://thefwa.com). Brands always strive to provide something that is not the “norm” to help them stand out.

  51. (If I were Lee I wouldn’t even post all the anonymous “stop complaining!” complaints. It doesn’t add anything useful to the discussion.)

    This current behavior displayed by Apple illustrates one of my biggest disenchantments with HTML5 in general. HTML5 offers some cool stuff I hope to take advantage of some day, but as a whole the experience is still a disaster of incoherency — I had to install a new browser and still all the demos didn’t work right, and then I read quotes from other browsers criticizing this one. It seems as long as there are multiple proprietary browser vendors there will always be this struggle, as there always has been.

    I’m trying to keep on top of web tools since it’s my profession, so thanks for this post, I might have missed these Apple HTML5 demos.

  52. Lee, thank you for years of tutorials and insights into the world of Flash.

    Can we all agree that the point of contingency is not Flash vs Canvas Tag/javascript frameworks/WebKit, but Apple’s premature abandonment of Flash support in order to carve out a scheme to keep their profits high (now past Microsoft!)? And can we agree that most certainly, Adobe dropped the ball on mobile device development?

    I’m personally looking forward to the day when a server side programmer can create humanistic content without learning specialized publishing languages (ie. iApp store and Flash player). And with the help of HTML5, google video and font standards, nodeJS and other scripting tools, we will have that outlet eventually.

    For now, Flash is far superior at rendering 3D graphics (http://www.infiniteturtles.co.uk/projects/away3d/demos/hacienda/BSPImportTest.html) and sequenced animations (http://www.greensock.com/v11/) among other creative expressions (http://www.hypeframework.org/).

    Here’s one example of ray tracing with javascript http://29a.ch/2010/6/2/realtime-raytracing-in-javascript (make sure you have at lest 300 to 400 Megs of ram). The only decent rendering of javascript based 3D animations I’ve seen is surprisingly in the IE9 preview.

    Unfortunately, for now there will be at least two camps for publishing RIAs to mobile devices. And it’s not surprising, since it’s 2010 and there isn’t 100% compliance with the existing web standards.

    If you’re a Flash developer and have to publish to iApple products check out http://smokescreen.us/. It should be easier than learning Objective C. If your an Apple developer, please listen to customer feedback in regards to supporting flash.

    That said, there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding Flash. Most of my clients, Ruby on Rails peers, and designer friends are sill under the belief that Flash dynamic text is not indexable. Time and work will be needed in order to correct this.

    Cheers,
    Phil

  53. This is typical of Apple to force people to install Safari to test out some poor html5 demos although you can bypass that shit with some effort.

    I am glad that HTML5 is evolving because its good that Flash get some competition. Competition is always good and Flash wont die because it always will evolve faster then the HTML standards that takes years to “settle”.

  54. As a Flash Developer for the past 10 years, I find it really disappointing that Adobe’s stance on this whole flash vs. apple thing seems to be “Let’s blog about how mean Apple are” or run to the press with passive agressive BS ads (“Adobe loves Apple”!!!), while Apple’s stance seems to be: let’s give a few working demonstrations… Ok, ok so their demos only run on their browser. That’s neither here nor there, it’s their prerogative how they want to run their company (for better or for worse).

    Like previous commenters have pointed out, it’s all well and good to cry about Apple not letting you play with their toys, but it’d be nice to see you put your money where your mouth is and actually ship a mobile runtime. iPhone has been out for 3 years now. When it was released everyone was still using Macromedia Studio 8, and CS3 had only just been *announced*!

    Fast forward three years and we get Flash Catalyst and some marketing rejig of Flex Builder into “Flash Builder”. Um… missing the point much?

    In other words, the response I’d love to see from Adobe to Apple’s HTML5 demos is a working version of Flash on a mobile device doing something really astonishing (like not crashing, or playing video for 10 hours on a single charge?)

    But somehow I doubt that’s gonna happen anytime soon, and that’s why people are going to stop using Adobe products, or caring about the kids throwing toys at each other in the playground.

  55. @rdas \while Apple’s stance seems to be: let’s give a few working demonstrations…\ Maybe you’re forgetting their active and very public campaign to eliminate Flash altogether, not just on their toys.

  56. I’m pretty tired and frustrated with both apple and adobe, both companies are pointing at the deficiencies of the other and they are both right — their technologies are both incredibly deficient.

    I have to agree with all of your (and others’) points about the fundamental intellectual dishonesty of apple’s “html5″ showcase. But I also want to point out something that should be blatantly obvious.

    You can link straight to their code. You can browse through and see that they used vendor-specific CSS prefixes, that their “few lines” of javascript are 700. Their text is delivered as encoded text, their images as images, stylesheets as stylesheets etc and all with mimetypes in the HTTP headers. It is all inspectable, open and transparent.

    Contrast that with flash’s java applet-ish fundamental nature of compile it all together and deliver a big binary, and then note that what apple did here, by the standards of the 2010 web, is a missed opportunity (for the reasons you mentioned and more).

    I’m pretty sick of you both.

  57. LOL those demos are so lame I mean common those are tings that we used to do 5 years ago and even then they moved smoother in flash. This is the flash killer LOL LOL LOL. Mr. Jobs aren’t you ashame to present this as the future of the web, do you really think that the entire planet is full of idiots?. God this was the best joke on the month.

    Lucky for APPLE that most of their customers don’t know shit about the web!

    ADOBE do something about this aggressive push against flash, it is not fair that a man with power can say(lie) and do anything he wants, and adobe say back “HEY WE LOVE YOU FOR THAT APPLE!”, is time to strike back, you owe this to the million of flash developers that loves to work with flash. Personally I feel offended that ADOBE is not responding back the same way!

    One more thing I am suppose to learn html5 for what, to starve to death:), IT IS NOT READY!!! not even by far.

  58. It’s kind of sad that of 60+ comments, only a few actually discuss about the contents of the post. I’m not interested in hearing why you think I should or should not post on a particular topic. If you don’t like the topics I post on, don’t read my blog. What I am interested in hearing is what you think about the actual contents of the post.

    From this point forward only comments that are directly related to the content of the post will be approved.

  59. @lee
    As I’ve said before, I feel that your post doesn’t really do much for the case for Flash, just the case against Apple. I would say that the Apple examples were rather disappointing, and that Google’s Chrome Experiments were more impressive, but your post doesn’t seem to do much to discredit anything but Apple, and believe it or not, someone can dislike Apple AND Adobe, or possibly like both companies.

    Even someone who prefers HTML5 over Flash isn’t inherently anti-Adobe, because Adobe doesn’t just make Flash, but other products like Dreamweaver. Adobe is part of the w3c, and AIR uses webkit. I suppose Adobe has a decent problem here. HTML5 and other in-browser technology presents a threat to Flash in a decent part of it’s usage, but Adobe can’t really oppose it without destroying their credibility. It does seem they are coming close with a recent very critical statement on open standards, though.

  60. I used to be a hardcore Apple consumer. I noticed a gradual downgrading of their apps, and OS. Apple needs to quit with anti-competitive antics, and just get back to making great apps. On the other hand, Adobe products have been getting better and better, although I wish they’d ditch a dozen of their slightly different apps such as Fireworks, and focus on making one great suite of apps. But on the topic of Apple’s HTML5 demo’s it’s too bad that Apple sours it by kicking web-plugins, and squandering browser compatibility.

  61. @john there is no problem from Adobe’s perspective. We believe that there is a place for both HTML5 and Flash. We make tools for both and we are hoping for developers to use each technology where they are appropriate to use. The issue is Apple’s position that Flash is dying and HTML5 is a suitable replacement. Both those things are false.

  62. @lee
    The areas where HTML and Flash are both ‘appropriate’ has a lot of overlap these days, and the majority of Flash content is utilizing just the feature sets of Flash 5 to 8, outside of perhaps things like supported codecs. Flash can maintain technology that is pushing the envelope, but most Flash content isn’t pushing the envelope. You can claim that Adobe’s concern with Flash is producing rich, modern, content that has features nobody else offers, but Adobe makes profits on sales volume, not just the best and the brightest, so Adobe’s use for mundane tasks like video and ads is important to them. If we say even 10% of content is pushing the envelope, which I would say is fairly generous, that leaves 90% of an Adobe flagship in disputed territory. Even if only 10% were disputed territory, it would still be a significant conflict of interest.

    If you and Adobe can’t even acknowledge that SOME conflict exists, there is no hope that Adobe can handle said conflict responsibly.

  63. Lee, many thanks for your great tutorials.
    About these html5 demos: now we are sure that it’s not ready to build large audience websites, so… flop. I’ll be having more fun and – I guess – money back by learnig AS3 multitouch classes ;-)
    And you are absolutely true: we have to consider both html5 and Flash new capabilities (as u have a cat and… balls!).

  64. I think showing the message was a smart way for Apple to promote their browser. They have a smaller market share and they want to grow. I see nothing wrong with them promoting their own products on their own site! Infact, I wish Adobe was this blatant about pushing new versions of Flash Player on the Adobe site.

    To be honest, I found the demos to be really good. All this while I hated how little you could do with HTML, so the demos definitely got me excited. You’re right, they dont show the full capabilities of HTML5. However Im quite certain that wasnt Apple’s intention to begin with. They want n00b developers to get the feel of it, and I think they achieved that.

    Less than 4% of internet users in the world are on Safari. Over 90% of all internet users have Flash. How exactly is that a dying technology? So if these demos only work with Safari, only the 4% could actually see them? Pretty lame in my opinion.

    Couldnt help but LOL @ all the “You’re on Apple’s side? Why are you reading this blog?” – comments. Thanks for keeping it clean Lee.

  65. Well said Lee, amazing how many people want to bash each other here rather than stay on topic. Apple is getting out of control and if their browser detection was so good, it would know I already have Safari installed and just tell me I can only view this with Safari, just like if you don’t have Flash. This whole thing is going from bad to worse with them.

    Also, it was great to finally meet you at FATC and the end. You know, at the Adobe table in the very spacious and sweaty hallway :)
    Chris

  66. Steve changed after buying himself to the top of the liver transplant queue…
    HTML5 is just a red herring in the debate, nothing but obfuscation. Is HTM5 the future of RIA? possibly, but its years out. To suggest that TODAY, HTML5 could replace flash is ridiculous, that this is even a point of discussion is insane. This reminds me of discussions on global warming or evolution, teach the controversy right? One side is woefully under-informed, or lacks the technical knowledge to understand the issue. It must be terribly frustrating to be at Adobe right now!
    But relax, in a year or two the market will be full of competing devices that support flash. Open Screen is a good long range strategy, the LLVM stuff with Alchemy is cool too. Apple will likely backtrack, or not.
    Its all about the money. Myself, Im an Apple user and fan, but its disappointing that my comrades cannot think critically and objectively here.
    Flash is a platform for application distribution; the IPhone/IPad is a platform for application distribution.
    Flash applications are free, IPhone applications are profitable. Its not rocket science…

  67. What Apple lies are you Adobe fanboys crying about? Are you guys really disillusioned to the fact that Html 5 is going to kill flash. It may be early for html 5, but in time Flash is dead.

    btw Adobe and Microsoft have been doing everything they can to delay the html 5 spec. That is not a lie it’s the truth!

  68. @john I guess we don’t see it as a conflict but rather a choice. There are definitely some projects that are on the borderline of HTML and Flash. It’s up to the individual developer what they choose. It’s the same choice between Flash and Flex or Photoshop and Illustrator.

    I’ll say it again. The problem I have with Apple’s behavior is not that they’re pushing HTML5. It’s that they are using it as an excuse to try and kill Flash altogether. In that respect they are way off and it’s only fair that I point that out.

  69. @lee
    Apple has definitely engaged in anti-Flash behavior, but I wouldn’t say that this is a case of it. All they are doing is pushing HTML5 here, which you claim to not take issue with. There’s a small, fairly innocuous reference to add-ons, but to see this as a significant part of a plot to kill Flash is a bit paranoid.

  70. The real issue here is the continued dishonesty of Apple surrounding HTML5. They are using it as catch phrase and are not interested in an open web. Only their version of the web.

  71. Hypothetically speaking, let’s give in to Steve Jobs for a moment. Flash bad!!! No Flash on the iPhone/iPad. Okay, we accept this.

    Now, explain again why it was wrong for Adobe Flash CS5 to generate native iPhone/iPad apps? This is the real, underlying issue that has no good explanation. If Apple doesn’t like a particular app developed with Flash CS5, they always had the right not to let it into the appStore.

  72. Do the maths :
    Safari is 4% of world web browsing
    iPhone + iPad is 1.5%
    IE6 is still 15%
    Firefox is huge and Chrome’s growing fast.
    Next year, Flash will be usable on 50% (?) of mobile devices.
    Apple is question of niche (excuse my french).
    Maybe the best attitude would be to ignore the sect.

  73. @john – That may be true if the showcase existed in a vacuum, but given Apple’s long list of false PR statements, this is obviously just a continuation of that same initiative to misinform the masses.

    At the end of the day, Adobe is not the one spinning lies, or filling people’s heads with falsehoods.

    One of these companies is completely full of sh!t. And it certainly is not Adobe.

    @ snickelfritz – Double your RIA budget!? I would at least increase by 400%. Keep in mind,
    1. you still need to develop the flash version to server the majority of web users who don’t support HTML5.
    2. You also need to add tweaks for each specific browser vendor, and revisit your code everytime a new browser is released (ala circa 1999).
    3. If you want decent performance on most mobile devices, Flash will outperform HTML5 (or rather Javascript) by a fair margin.

  74. @john

    While I personally couldn’t say what route adobe should take in defending itself, the html5 page on apple’s site is a clear example of it’s anti-flash sentiment. Why? Because at the bottom the page is a giant link on Steve Jobs thoughts on Flash.

  75. Hi Lee,

    There are a few things you may have got wrong: The page works on iPhone and iPad, and perform well. Not all features are supported though, and so although you can do the perspective and mask video test on iPad, you can’t on iPhone.

    The number of those 160 HTML5 tests that the browser can handle isn’t the whole story. If you tell Chrome to pretend to be Safari, you can view the page, but some of the demos don’t work, others work badly. In the case of the transitions demo there is only a short list of ones that will work in Chrome.

    So, although most HTML5 demos out there do perform badly on iPad, and make it seem like performance from 10 years ago, this demo page isn’t one of those. The demos do actually work well on Safari, and not so well on Chrome.

  76. I’m using Chrome v5.0.375.55 (which it tells me is up to date) on OSX 10.6.3, and the transitions list is: Dissolve, Toss, Slide In Iris, Fade Through. on iPad and Safari I also get Cube, Rotate In, Horizontal Flip, and Multi-Flip.

    In Chrome, on the Video demo I get a Mask option, but no Perspective, and I also don’t get a Play button, so can’t start the video. On the Audio page Chrome does a low frame rate update of the progress gauge. The Gallery page also loads images a little jerkily.

    As you know, I completely disagree with Flash apps being blocked from the App Store, but in this case the demo is about what Safari does well with HTML5, and opening it up for use by Chrome would not make a stronger case for HTML5.

  77. I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and are looking forward to great features, innovations and ideas in future to work alongside with Flash. But I don’t like what apple is doing, and… by the way.. have you seen this clip with a guy testing Html5 applications on ipad, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4&feature=fvsr. I don’t have an iPad, I will probably never buy one if they don’t open their minds to me as developer.

  78. That’s why I love Flash. You don’t need to download a whole browser to view a portion of a site. This is similar to, well you need to get a new car to go on this road, or if you want to watch this show you’ll have to get a new TV. What happen to the old idea of creating product to ease customer’s life. No according to Apple if you want a better life just get a new one!

  79. I have no problem with HTML5 either. In fact…porting things to desktop browsers has not been as painful as I thought. HOWEVER, I’ve been porting programs to javascript/html5 for the iPhone/iPad and I can tell you firsthand that the html5/javascript performance is abyssmal compared to the same task exported for iPad using the iPhone export toolkit. Apple does not utilize full HTML5 that they do on their desktop version..autoplaying videos, etc. They just left that stuff out. The only thing it does better is video performance because Apple grabs video and utilizes the built in Quicktime hardware decoding while flash appears to be doing some sort of painful software render of FLVs. I have yet to see a functioning example of the iPhone/iPad opening an H.264 video locally using the quicktime API without it loading an html page with said content first.

  80. The examples do run on my3GS, but they are sluggish and sometimes crap out.
    I thought it was interesting that they don’t support the Iris transition on the iPhone, although it is on the iPad. I assume it’s because its much like a PixelBender filter (kernel) and it doesn’t perform well on the iPhone.
    If you run nightly builds of webkit in Safari, it does score a little higher html5test.com than Chrome (not that I’m saying Lee should have tested with nightly builds)

  81. This is a time of change, and change is a threat when done to you, it is an opportunity when done by you.

    Flash will die only when the last flash developer stops coding – or the world ends, whichever comes first :)

    HTML5 will make the web better in many ways, but it is a loooooong way from enabling rich, interactive experiences that flash offered for years. Even souped-up machines choke when you run a few simultaneous JS animations using 24bit PNGs – something that Flash handles oh-just-so-well.

    Apple’s “HTML5-ready” list of sites condenses to one line, repeated over and over again: “HTML5 video player”. Flash as a platform goes far and beyond playing back youtube videos – something that has become synonymous (flash/video) in minds of an average user, and Apple is taking advantage of this mentality – making a hefty profit while at it.

    Apple cult is not really a cult – it’s a brand of choice for a) professionals in many industries (Lee’s tutorials on gotoAndLearn are mostly recorded off of a Mac…) and b) consumers who don’t want to deal with weekly critical-vulnerability Windows updates… iPhone 4 is just too bad ass, and iPad is a new product category, it will mature. How many of you have iPods?

    We (designers/developers) are caught in a battle that reminds me of Netscape 4 / IE 5 stand off (though in a slightly different context) – we survived, we became smarter, we evolved and invented web 2.0.

    The hype right now is about mobile devices, and frankly speaking, when I’m on the go, I want quick, lean experience – no flash intros please :)

    So if we stand back for a second and look at the big picture, Flash will live for as long as people use desktop computers – and Mobile apps will evolve the same way personal computing evolved 20 years ago. Our children will look back and laugh at how we struggled to accept change.

    Change is a threat when done to you, it is an opportunity when done by you. Which camp are you in?

  82. @Inso totally agree with you. But again it is this mentality that there are two camps. Perhaps nobody wants to believe me when I say that I’m a big supporter of web standards. There are just some things that need to go beyond the standards, and that’s where I see Flash fitting in.

    I guess it is easier for people think in black and white when it comes to this debate. My issue is with Apple, not HTML5 or web standards. Those are two very different things.

  83. I’ve just browsed these demos with another browser : Midori (with Ubuntu Lucid), changing the user agent, letting Midori identify itself as Safari and everything works ! So if they want u to use Safari it is not a question of browser capabilities…

  84. I can agree with Lee here. We are starting a big web project and done some recon about web technologies. We had clear vision what we want to achieve. We looked into HTML5, Flash and Silverlight. After some this study we figure out that HTML5 has not the power to do all the things we had in our minds and the penetration rate of HTML5 ready browser is not sufficient. The easy winner here was Flash and Flex framework in particular with an over 90% of penetration rate and amazing capabilities and performance.

    Now, we may would an iPhone client and an Android client (for obvious reasons it would be a lot easier) but it is second objective.

    I think if you are a developer, you must make some choices. You must think in terms of the best technology for the moment not for the future. When things change in the future you will need to adopt.

    When it comes to flash I think that HTML 5 is not a flash replacement. Sure, HTML 5 can do a lot what flash was always capable of but flash is also evolving at a much faster rate. When every major browser will support HTML 5 that I have no idea what flash would be capable of. I can only imagine that Adobe employees will take it to a whole new level. Then the history will repeat with HTML6 as a flash killer ;)

    Just my 2 cents and sorry for my bad english.

  85. Yes.

    We are all aware that Flash is better at effects then HTML.
    However if 100 million iDevices aren’t going to support Flash then I don’t think it really matters anymore. It doesn’t make business sense to build applications that aren’t going to work on iDevices.

  86. safari5 score 143 out of 160 in html5test … this screen is old.
    these demo is just a preview for the launch of their new release of safari.
    other browser (chrome apart but is webkit too) have less score in htm5test.
    A part of that you say that html5 animation / transition and other things are like flash 5.
    But think of what kind of site do you use for long in a day.
    Google, facebook, twitter, blog, forum, Journal Sites, google reader, google news, gmail … all this site have no great transition but is FAST and doing what you need without FLASH.
    For a great site you don’t need great transition if you have great CONTENT.
    This my 2 cent.

  87. I afraid that most people here are missing the point of HTML5. There seems to be this competition between Apple and Adobe where they’ve picked either the Red (Apple, HTML5) or Blue (Adobe, Flash) side and are ready to throw down in the name of which one is better…

    Isn’t this argument moot? It just shows how ignorant most people are. HTML5 and Flash aren’t even close to the same thing. Now if you want to compare and divide abilities, I’d vote for HTML5 to win and take control of handling media natively within the browser – that’s how it should be. But as far as the fusion between advanced animation and data handling is concerned… Flash wins and I think will continue to win for a long time to come.

    HTML5 is a very basic foundation for a lot of what self proclaimed evangelists scream about from the rooftops. Without JavaScript, a lot of these features are quite… useless.

  88. WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION IF THE IPAD HAD FLASH. Just wanted to make that clear to everyone. Think about it … if the iPad had Flash we would all rest much easier.

    I could honestly care less about seeing Flash on phones (see @Inso’s comments).

  89. Is Adobe doing anything along the same lines of the webgl stuff? (the doom in javascript demo)

    It looks like they are simply making a plugin that offers a better canvas drawing context. I know the html 5 canvas api is a little thin, but wouldn’t that be an easy way to a) support standards. and b) keep flash in the mix?

    Maybe then adobe would have more leverage on expanding the canvas api to something real. See: http://www.khronos.org/webgl/

  90. I am not convinced that technology supported by iDevices is the only technology that a developer should be interested in. There will be 100 million iDevices soon, yes, and probably there will be even more other devices with support for flash.

    I am a mac user, my whole house uses apple products. I have an iPhone. Now, every time I see a blue box telling me that this site is done in flash I am not angry with the web designer. I am angry with Steve Jobs and his point of view. Ok, there was no full flash before but now it is different. You can have a Nexus One with full flash support. Now I am really angry. Why can’t I have flash on the iPhone? Why not include flash with an on/off switch. It would be up to user if he/she uses it.

    In a developer world time is gold. I can do more and faster with Flex/Flash that with HTML 5. Testing with different browsers is a nightmare, besides you have to still support IE 6. Will you develop two html 5 applications? One for IE 6 and one for the rest?

    I love flash, I love HTML 5 but they are NOT for the same job. I would not build a blog site in flash and I would not build an advanced RIA in html 5 (for the moment).

    How about building this app in HTML 5:

    http://aviary.com/tools/myna

    I live in a country where not so long ago the government told you what you can do and what you cannot do. The society was not happy about it. Things changed but now Steve reminds me that time. The web is about freedom of choice. Obviously it is easier to change your phone than your country so I am looking into this…

  91. Saw Steve Jobs keynote and i kinda understood the fact that Adobe has to wait for updates from apple to be able to incorporate the tools needed to build iphone applications, thats like holding back. Well am glad that driod is here with flashplayer + AIR. Open standards are the best but security is key in almost every app. Adobe rocks and am sure apple using photoshop to design their products. Sometimes there is a need to protect what you have for future projections. Both companies are doing a very great job; and if i were to choose sides, i will choose Adobe, because they made me and all those Ajax application out there are mock ups from flash developers..HTML 5 need to step up their game cos flash got more than just points. real talk

  92. These demos show that a lot of the more mundane uses of flash, would be better done in HTML5 i.e. Custom Font Rendering, simple video, image galleries etc, already a lot of Galleries that I used to do in Flash I now do in JQuery. If the client wants something bespoke and the it is flash all the way.

    Flash is the ‘Swiss Army Knife’ the flexible tool that delivers what browsers can’t. For example I have used flash to print Hi-Resolution or to detect Screen Readers. And when a client asks for something non-standard I know that I can deliver it for the mass market with Flash in my toolkit.

    If Google or even Microsoft were disabling flash in their products I would crap myself but as its only Apple, I will sleep easy.

  93. It is quite clear that Steve Jobs is not interested in standards. How could he be when his company is the worst offender when it comes to proprietary technology. Yet he has the cheek to launch an anti-flash campaign in a bid to recruit the misinformed and kill Flash. I take it personally. He is basically trying to make more money at the expense of me and every other Flash developer.

    HTML5 is fine and it seems the overwhelming majority of Flash developers are glad for it to be around. But we also realize that it is not a replacement for Flash. If Flash dies, web technology regresses which is why I am glad there are people like Lee who are passionate enough about Flash to ensure that it stays around.

    That being said Adobe are potentially on the slippery slide here. Apple has a great marketing division and create a pretty one sided voice. Adobe really needs to come up with something big to knock the socks off its critics. That is the only way to ensure Flash is seen as indispensable.

  94. i don’t blame apple for forcing you to get safari to view them, they’re a business and they’re trying to promote their product. however to lots of people, especially developers, it will come across as going against the whole point of standards and the openness of the web, and disingenuous as they have used safari/webkit only code in there so it isn’t standard at all. in this scenario you might as well use a propriety plugin! download a plugin or download a browser; whats the difference?

    this only goes to show that html5 is some way off being a final product and standard. i look forward to the day it is.

    i found the video demo very disappointing especially as this is what is touted about html5- very clunky unresponsive controls. the image gallery was ok but not better than a flash version. i liked the typography demo and the 360°. i guess the 3D was just lots of images though rather than an actual 3D model? if so thats far less impressive, like 6 years less impressive!

    just went to it on my iPhone and tried out the gallery and typography demos. clearly they weren’t designed for an iPhone. in the typography demo the controls were small so i had to zoom in to use and then could only see a fraction of the type. bad layout. the gallery fit ok within the screen but was unresponsive after touching an image but they did eventually show, however without a preloader i was unsure what was happening. preloaders is like lesson 2 in dynamic flash and considered a usability essential, so i’m quite surprised they left it off, considering how apple are so focused on user experience.

  95. Brian = moron.

    Why is that everyone who hates flash says these things:

    I hate flash it is a resource HOG and is annoying.
    HTML5 can do what flash does and its so cool….

    Please, WHAT THE HELL ?

    I think its time we put up some real demos of HTML5 and start crashing all the iPhones out there…..

  96. Now, I would like to share something that I find really interesting. There is an interesting front page of the polish edition of Forbes (June issue). There are 4 photos, one of Sergey Brin and Larry Page, second of Bill Gates, third of Rupert Murdoch and forth of Steve Jobs. The title says “The Lords of the Souls”. It got me interested and I bought the magazine.

    It says that DreamWorks studio is owned by Apple and is the biggest shareholder of Disney which competes with 20th Century Fox (Rupert Murdoch). Now these two gentleman together with the Viacom company started HULU.

    Now, it is very interesting to me because I read recently that Hulu won’t transition to HTML5 with their video library. So it is a good business decision for them and Steve as a cofounder can live with that. If he thinks flash is buggy why can he live with that? Why is he not worried that iPhone and iPad users won’t be able to get a Hulu experience? Oh I know, I read it later in the same article:
    The TV shows from ABC and NBC that Hulu shares for free Jobs wants to sell in iTunes store for 1.99$!

    This is a proof that not including Flash on iPad or iPhone is a business decision and not a technical one. I do not thrust in Steve’s words anymore, he is just a liar and full of disrespect for his customers.

    I belive HTML5 is great, it is not ready yet but we all need it. It is were the web is headed. We still need Flash for more advanced work though and I am glad the flash platform evolves thanks to Lee and other Adobe folks. Great job!

  97. Yes, Apple is bad for trying to kill off a viable product valued by many tech and creatives trying to earn a living. Apple is anti-competitive.

    Ummm… anyone remember Freehand?

  98. Flash vs HTML5? Of course HTML5 will be the way to go in the future. Why does Apple block other browsers from via their HTML5 examples? HTML5 is supposed to be an open standard. I hoped by now they would have removed the Safari restriction.

  99. It’s funny how Apple features a tron Legacy video in their examples yet if you go to the tron legacy website it’s pretty much all flash.

  100. The resident surgeon at the pen had to sew Adobe’s behind up after a close encounter of the worst kind with Apple in the showers…they had their buddies “Crash”, “Complaints”,”Power Hungry”, “Long Time Coming” and “Business Model” with ‘em so Adobe didn’t stand a chance…all the inmates know “Business Model” is only init for the dough and was nothing personal…

  101. Adobe guys talks allot about Apple products :D, yeah true fact, i was also wonderd when i was testing with Firefox 4, but ultimatly Apple wants to demostrate there experiments only with with there product.

    as a product based company, its a true fact :)

  102. Safari isn’t even a relevant browser one would hope they could get something up and running on chrome or firefox. It’s pretty bad that HTML5 is really just turning into what we can do already with AJAX.